Monday, March 02, 2009
Joyless Church
Blue Fish linked to digital H2O who wrote:
Some people it seems come to this "more" and only develop an intellectual concept of what they come to later - or in some cases never. Some come to the intellectual first and the "more" later, or again not at all. Can someone who comes to the "more" first but never quite gets there with the intellectual said to be a complete Christian? What about the converse?
Which leads me to my disagreement. I am not sure that discovering the "more" will always lead to the "happy, happy, joy, joy" stuff. For such people, and sometimes I think I am one of them, the effort to access the "more" of being in and with Christ is simply that, effort. Exercising the spiritual disciplines will always take effort.
We live in the "already, not yet." Christ has come and we are perfected in His sight, but we remain prone to sin, as such we will always fall short in something. For some they will fall short in intellectual rigor. For some they will fall short in "joy."
A word of advice if you are working with a "joyless" person. If they seem genuine and honest in their pursuit of a life with Christ - do not add to their burden by telling them they fall short in the "joy" thing. Don't ask if they have "been converted." Such is to stand in judgment that God reserves purely for Himself. In such lies pride, and that calls into questions the state of your own "conversion."
Think about it.
My wife and I were leading a Christian holiday on which I preached through Philippians. During the week I had an alarming number of questions that went like this: "there is lots of joy in God in Philippians and none in my life. Does that mean something is wrong?" Yes it does! In each case I tried to find out what it was.I have to agree AND disagree here. First the agreement. There is more to being a Christian than mere intellectual ascent to a set of ideas and principles. That "more" has many, many expressions. There is the "peace that passes all understanding;" there is "baptism in the Holy Spirit;" there is "joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart;" there is sanctification, and there is obedience.
{...}
If I had asked a fifth question it would have been: have you been converted? My justification for doing so would be that I don't think you can say "I have no joy in God in my life, I have never known anything like that" and be certain that you are a Christian. If people genuinely know God, are thrilled by what he has done for them and want to discover what he wants for their life then they can't say that.
Some people it seems come to this "more" and only develop an intellectual concept of what they come to later - or in some cases never. Some come to the intellectual first and the "more" later, or again not at all. Can someone who comes to the "more" first but never quite gets there with the intellectual said to be a complete Christian? What about the converse?
Which leads me to my disagreement. I am not sure that discovering the "more" will always lead to the "happy, happy, joy, joy" stuff. For such people, and sometimes I think I am one of them, the effort to access the "more" of being in and with Christ is simply that, effort. Exercising the spiritual disciplines will always take effort.
We live in the "already, not yet." Christ has come and we are perfected in His sight, but we remain prone to sin, as such we will always fall short in something. For some they will fall short in intellectual rigor. For some they will fall short in "joy."
A word of advice if you are working with a "joyless" person. If they seem genuine and honest in their pursuit of a life with Christ - do not add to their burden by telling them they fall short in the "joy" thing. Don't ask if they have "been converted." Such is to stand in judgment that God reserves purely for Himself. In such lies pride, and that calls into questions the state of your own "conversion."
Think about it.
Technorati Tags:joy, joyless, faithfulness, judgement, pride
Generated By Technorati Tag Generator
